20 replies to this topic

[seasnake]

Quite a lot of people know that I do not eat two days in a row and fast for days at a time while exercising for hours every day and haven't ate two days in a row for a good 15 months now.  What I have learned during this time is that my scale weight lags how I actually ate from one section to another quite a bit despite my food days gaining too much weight from water bloat on just about every food day and a subsequent water weight drop upon the first fasting day that results in a scale weight drop roughly of half of what I gained regardless of having stools or not.

 

I have long contended that when the body takes in food chemicals it over hydrates which then causes far more scale weight gain than can be explained by calorie intake or even the total weight of the food that was eaten.  Also I have contended that when the body drops out food chemicals the chemicals over dehydrates the body even when one drinks more than an ample amount of water which then causes to all sorts of dehydration problems which go away after fasting a day and a half or two so those effects aren't from dehydration or starvation that early into a fast but from dehydration and drying out and off of food chemicals the same as would be the case of a drunk drying out from alcohol.  Restricting a bit before fasting therefore makes fasting easier, and so does eating less chemically laden healthier foods and shying away from sugar and sugar substitutes as sugar crashes energy after spiking it.  The sugar effect is magnified upon an empty stomach after fasting so food days between fasting periods aught to avoid its intake as much as possible.

 

Anyways, I have also learned through personal experience that when I try to maintain weight by selecting a set maintenance weight to which I generally take a food day when my morning weigh in weight drops below it and take a fasting day when its at or above that the weight I tried to maintain at suddenly is a bit off from current weight.  Recently I was maintaining at a set weight of 131 lbs. and thought I would test out lowering the set weight downwards to 130 lbs. though I mainly kept to the 131 set weight for the most part.  Then suddenly my weight dropped and was regularly clear down to 128.5 lbs. which was way too low as all my ribs suddenly jutted out all over the place.  I then decided to shorten the days between fasts and up my weight back to the 131 lbs. set weight but when I did that I then suddenly found that I overshot by quite a bit.  It seemed like my actual weight loss/gain lagged whatever the scale weight read on an after food day basis by up to two full food and fasting day periods.

 

So what exactly is the Whoosh Effect (a concept that is contended by many as being real):

[seasnake]

The “Whoosh” Effect: Burning fat and losing weight doesn’t happen simultaneously!

 Brian Shellabarger  February 3, 2016

 

Fundamentally speaking, burning fat is all about creating a caloric deficit. You eat less food than your body requires, thus forcing your body to make up the difference by getting energy from fat reserves. This isn’t a theory. It’s the first law of thermodynamics. It’s literally one of the laws of physics. And it all contributes to “the whoosh” effect.

 

However, as many diligent dieters have personally learned, the amount of weight that you lose each day, or each week, is rarely consistent.

Some weeks, you’ll find that you don’t lose any weight at all. Even when you’ve had a perfect workout schedule and eaten at a perfect caloric deficit the scale is inconsistent. Other weeks you’ll discover that you lost way more weight than the numbers say you should have lost.

If the laws of calorie-in/calorie-out are real, why would a person lose such dramatically different amounts of weight from week to week, despite following an identical routine?

 

Enter… “The Whoosh Effect”

 

As you burn fat, you’ll sometimes notice that the area where the fat used to be now takes on a sort of squishy consistency. Squishy fat forms because as fat cells are extracted and mobilized, space where they once existed gets filled with water, making the area feel softer than normal. Sometimes squishy fat forms in places we can see it, and sometimes it forms more internally where we can’t. Sometimes it’s in huge pockets, and sometimes it forms at a microscopic level where you can’t see it or feel it. But the areas that were once filled with fat sit there, filled with water!

 

The squishy fat areas can last for a few days to as much as a few weeks. Then, one day, inexplicably and out of nowhere, all that squishy fat suddenly tightens up! In some cases, you’ll even (suddenly) look leaner. And at the same time, the scale suddenly drops, and you cheer because you feel like whatever you did the day before caused you to lose a ton of weight!

 

It will probably surprise you to learn that almost ALL scale movements are the result of fat burn that happened days, or even weeks ago! Sudden scale movement at the very beginning of a diet is usually the result of water-weight being dropped due to a decrease in carb intake.

Did you catch that? When the scale goes down while dieting, it’s usually because of fat that you lost several days (or even weeks) ago, and your body is finally expelling the water that took its place.

 

Put another way, even though you may be in a state where you are constantly burning fat, the results of that effort may not show up on the scale immediately. And more likely, they’ll show all at once, one day, where you’ll have a sudden “whoosh” of weight-loss.

 

 

http://100down.org/the-whoosh-effect/

[seasnake]

The Minnesota Starvation Experiment

 

During World War II, a scientific study was performed wherein 36 men volunteered for a semi-starvation diet of 1,500 calories a day for 6 months, combined with several hours of hard labor every day. This became known as the “Minnesota Starvation Experiment.” The purpose was to learn about the physiology and psychology of starvation and use the data to help the returning Prisoners of War.

 

One of the many interesting findings that came from this study was that weight loss progressed in a nice, linear fashion in the beginning. Men lost about 2 pounds per week, every week. After some time, though, it became erratic and unpredictable.

 

Body weight would remain stagnant for several weeks followed by overnight “bursts” of large amounts of weight loss (3+ pounds). It’s physically impossible to burn several pounds of fat overnight, so how is that possible?

 

Well, the scientists looked into the phenomenon further and found the answer: water retention.

 

The men were steadily losing fat even when their weight wasn’t changing because as they lost more fat, they held more water. This only became obvious once the excess water was expelled, which gave the appearance of very rapid weight loss.

 

So let’s be very clear on what was happening:

The calorie deficit did its job by systematically reducing body fat. But the reductions in total body weight were often counter-balanced by increases in water retention.

 

http://100down.org/the-whoosh-effect/ 

[seasnake]

The site quoted in the previous two posts then goes on to say that the Whoosh Effect can be countered by having a day of higher calorie intake which then allows the body to suddenly clear out water retention by causing a person to have to pee a lot afterwards, and so they recommend taking a normal eating day every now and then to break up constantly restricting. 

 

However they also state that such a day really isn't necessary to take as the body will eventually expel the excessively retained water weight in time.

 

What they don't say is that by taking a larger food day to break up the restricting days you are actually sabotaging the weight loss as that day is going to show up on the scale several days down the line cause the body delays it a bit.  This is why so many people don't seem to gain weight the day after Thanksgiving or Christmas feasts and cheer when their weight somehow managed to drop but then about a week or so later are crying about how far their weight suddenly jumped up.  Trying to trigger the whoosh effect looks good on the scale when it happens but doesn't stay that way if you binged yourself while doing it.

 

I had a pizza day two fasting periods ago and I was pleased that after my food day my weight didn't go up as I thought it would have, but since then I've been paying for that food day ever since and am still trying to get its delayed resulting weight back off through returning to my regular food day foods.  That of course takes a couple sessions to really kick back in.

 

The concept of the Whoosh Effect is interesting, but doesn't seem to be complete as its currently theorized and understood.  There is definitely a delayed weight effect going on and the Whoosh Effect just might not be spot on about it.

[lemon&ginger]

This made me feel a lot better! thanks <3

[negation]

The Minnesota Starvation Experiment

 

During World War II, a scientific study was performed wherein 36 men volunteered for a semi-starvation diet of 1,500 calories a day for 6 months, combined with several hours of hard labor every day. This became known as the “Minnesota Starvation Experiment.” The purpose was to learn about the physiology and psychology of starvation and use the data to help the returning Prisoners of War.

 

One of the many interesting findings that came from this study was that weight loss progressed in a nice, linear fashion in the beginning. Men lost about 2 pounds per week, every week. After some time, though, it became erratic and unpredictable.

 

Body weight would remain stagnant for several weeks followed by overnight “bursts” of large amounts of weight loss (3+ pounds). It’s physically impossible to burn several pounds of fat overnight, so how is that possible?

 

Well, the scientists looked into the phenomenon further and found the answer: water retention.

 

The men were steadily losing fat even when their weight wasn’t changing because as they lost more fat, they held more water. This only became obvious once the excess water was expelled, which gave the appearance of very rapid weight loss.

 

So let’s be very clear on what was happening:

The calorie deficit did its job by systematically reducing body fat. But the reductions in total body weight were often counter-balanced by increases in water retention.

 

http://100down.org/the-whoosh-effect/ 

 

 

Seasnake, you literally just saved my life! Or my ability to breath normally at least. One should think that 15 years of anorexia might have taught me this, but no, was still feeling like a complete failure, when the scale said 200 g more this morning even though I'm heavily restricting. Thank you for these post!  

[seasnake]

Seasnake, you literally just saved my life! Or my ability to breath normally at least. One should think that 15 years of anorexia might have taught me this, but no, was still feeling like a complete failure, when the scale said 200 g more this morning even though I'm heavily restricting. Thank you for these post!  

 

It is nice to know that fat loss should continue even though the scale might not immediately register it due to water retention and muscle weight gain.

[unsuspected]

good stuff, as per usual, seasnake

[seasnake]

bumping this up just to be able to find it again for referencing

[meadowfairy]

Thanks for sharing all this helpful info.

It amused me to think of the fact that weight lost being from days or weeks ago is analagous to light from stars we see being from years and years ago. Lol. Starfat. I'm just goofy this morning

[Silly Bimbo]

LOVE this!!!


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[seasnake]

Guy claims that when no weight loss is happening during a fast that inches are being lost while the skin tightens up.

[seasnake]

[Lil Miss Strawb]

https://bodyrecompos...and-squishy-fat  if you guys wanna save the site to your bookmarks lol

[seasnake]

https://bodyrecompos...and-squishy-fat  if you guys wanna save the site to your bookmarks lol

 

From that site:

 

Somewhat circumstantially, people using Bioimpedance body fat scales (which use hydration to estimate body fat levels) have noted that body fat appears to go up right before a big drop. This implicates water balance as the issue here.

 

As well, women, who have more problems with water retention, seem to have bigger issues with stalls and whooshes than men.  Further, some individuals who have done dry carb-loads (high carbohydrate refeeds without drinking a lot of water) have seen them occur; presumably the body pulls water into the muscles and out of other tissues (fat cells).  In lean individuals, appearance is often drastically improved with this approach, it doesn’t do much for those carrying a lot of fat.

 

I’d note that dry carb-loads suck because you’re so damn thirsty.  Interestingly, even normal refeeds often work in this regards, perhaps the hormonal effect ‘tells’ the body to chill out and release some water.  So not only do refeeds seem to improve stubborn fat mobilization the next day (as discussed above), they may help the body drop some water so that you can see what is happening.

 

Finally, many have reported whooshes following an evening which included alcohol. A mild diuretic, this would also tend to implicate water balance issues in the whoosh phenomenon.

 

I’d also note that this isn’t universal, lean dieters often see visual improvements on a day to day basis; a lot seems to depend on whether or not they tend to retain water in general.  Folks who do have problems with water retention tend to have stalls and whooshes, those who don’t show nice consistent visual changes.

 

On a related topic, I wanted to discuss something else that often happens when people are getting very lean and dealing with stubborn body fat: the fat gets squishy, feeling almost like there are small marbles under the skin.  Yes, very scientific, I know. That’s the best I can do.

 

As folks get very lean, down to the last pounds of fat, the skin and fat cells that are left will often change appearance and texture.  It will look dimply (as the fat cells which are supporting the skin shrink and the skin isn’t supported) and feel squishy to the touch. This is bad in that it looks really weird, but it’s good because it means that the fat is going away. 

[g.lina]

Dammmit I'm in love with this thread

[seasnake]

 

 

[Chlorophyll]

I just noticed this thread linked in op's signature. I'm commenting here because I don't have time to read the theory in it's entirety rn and I definitely don't want to lose the location of the thread. Thanks for this, btw! It looks fascinating.

[LexiMcQueen]

It's not some mysterious chemicals but in a way, yeah, chemicals. It's insulin, sugar, salt. They draw hydration to tissue. Especially after insulin has been low for a while and then it raises suddenly (eating, especially carbs), electrolytes in blood are shifted into cells and that can be even dangerous (refeeding syndrome). That's why so many these days recommend breaking long fasts with low carb and low protein foods and slowly introducing proteins and then carbs.

But yeah, weight gain when eating is not only food weight. Our hydration level changes with electrolytes and electrolyte levels change when fasting. That's also why many people on keto and ef say electrolytes are not optional, they are required daily supplement.

[pickles312]

Guy claims that when no weight loss is happening during a fast that inches are being lost while the skin tightens up.
[/size]

Sadly, I’m the type that fasts for 3 days and loses maybe 0.7 lbs. and I have PLENTY of fat to lose. I usually eat pretty low carb so that may be one reason why. Also, it takes a while for my blood glucose readings to go down (insulin resistance?). I’m not diabetic, though. It may also be because I crave salt like crazy when I’m fasting. Therefore, i do end up ingesting a lot of sodium. Sigh